【心无挂碍】第八弹，技术分享，街霸4 VS 街霸5，你更喜欢哪一款？？
hello~大家好大概在2周之前，我在群里分享过一个国外圈子在讨论的话题现在整理一下，方便更多的小伙伴看到。正确来说应该是2018年提出的一个话题，只是当时这个话题没有得到重视，在2020年2月的时候，重新被人捡了起来，并且邀请了几个大佬来解答。只是刚好看到大家在讨论，零零散散把这些信息收集起来。觉得还挺有意思的。或许你看完这篇帖子，也可以对格斗游戏动画有一个入门的了解。
我并不是一个格斗游戏的粉丝，只能说是“看过”“玩过”。关于街霸4和街霸5的对比，方方面面太多了，制作引擎啊(SF4自研，SF5虚幻4），游戏体验，呈现方式，特效，音效。。。。当然还有说SF5只是一个半成品，卡神已经把主要精力放在竞赛和宣发上这些咱也不懂，咱也不敢问
我们这次只看他们的动画表现。看到这张图的时候，我也很好奇，这么强大的卡神，也会犯错误吗？刚好LOL也在做格斗类动画，算是提前做一个调研。
起因：
一名日本网友，发了一张2018年的图，并发出了疑问“为什么街霸5的樱花会是这样？ 完全没有腰部的动画的感觉，POSE很重要啊！！”
既然是讨论，肯定会有不同的声音。 我们先来看看
支持“街霸4”的观点
一位来自泰国清迈的 动画师Richmond_Lee 进行了专业的分析。 这位动画师很擅长研究格斗类的动画 。以下是他的分享。
I was asked (very nicely!) to explain why SF4 Sakura has better anim/key poses than SF5 Sakura. Here's a quick infographic. Basically the SF4 one looks stronger cos she's really turning into that punch. She's throwing from the hips. SFV is like the fist is pulling her forward!
我被邀请了(非常感谢！)。来解释为什么SF4樱花比SF5樱花有更好的动画/关键姿势。这里有一张简短的信息图表。基本上，SF4的看起来更强壮，因为她真的变成了那个拳头。她在从臀部往外发力。SF5就像是拳头在把她往前拉！
The SFV animation by surface level conventional animation wisdom has a more clear silhouette--but does it?? In SF4 it's very clear how Sakura's legs are propelling her forward. In the SFV key pose it's difficult to tell which leg is even in the front.
SF5动画按表现水平来说，应该有更清晰的轮廓-- 但它是吗？？ 在SF4中，很清楚樱花的腿是如何推动她前进的。在SF5的关键姿势中，很难分辨哪条腿在前面。
OK! Look at their heads! In SF4 she's really leaning and twisting into that punch. You can't even see her face! Not only does this add impact and emphasis to the animation, it's also better form as she's tucking her chin in!
好的!。看看他们的头！在SF4中，她真的是斜着身子，扭动着身子，打出了那一拳。你甚至看不到她的脸！这不仅增加了动画的冲击力和重点，而且也是更好的形式，因为她把下巴缩了进去！
Here's another cool detail. In SF4, Sakura is adding a "corkscrew" twist to her punch. This not only looks cooler, it adds more impact, and many believe it stresses your joints less. Also raises the shoulder muscles to guard your face just a bit more!
这是另一个很酷的细节。在SF4中，樱花在她的拳头上增加了一个“扭曲向前”的扭动。这不仅看起来更酷，而且增加了更多的冲击力，许多人认为它对你的关节压力较小。同时抬高肩部肌肉来保护你的脸部，只是稍微多一点而已！
Capcom has been animating punches with the "corkscrew" for ages. They have always been so ahead of the game when it comes to art and gameplay and the perfect union of the two!多年来，Capcom一直在用“扭曲向前”制作拳击动画。当谈到艺术和游戏性，以及两者的完美结合时，他们总是走在了游戏的前列！
The Shotos' punches are great examples of the 3 most standard punches in Martial Arts. LP = jab, MP = straight punch, HP = hook
Shotos的拳头是武术中最标准的三种拳头的很好的例子。LP=刺拳，MP=直冲，HP=勾拳
I just want to emphasize, if you want a punch to feel very strong, you need strong keyframes with very straight lines of action. I know a lot of schools of animation say to make everything a curve and arc, but this is a fight not a dance.
我只想强调，如果你想让拳头感觉非常有力，你需要强有力的关键帧和非常笔直的动作线。我知道很多动画流派都说要把一切都画成曲线和圆弧，但这是一场战斗，而不是一场舞蹈。
Lets REALLY think about what a "good silhouette" means. Which one of these feels stronger? Why?By Animation 101 standards, the SFV pose could be considered superior with its more obvious "line of action" and clear placement of the head. But actually it's a much weaker pose!
让我们认真思考一下“好的剪影”是什么意思。这些中哪一个感觉更强烈？为什么？
根据动画101的标准，SFV姿势可以被认为是优越的，因为它更明显的“行动路线”和清晰的头部位置。但实际上这是一个很弱的姿势！By turning in the head and limbs and creating a tighter silhouette, the SF4 pose (left) is actually much more dimensional. The way the parts overlap is much clearer. The SFV pose (right) is MUCH FLATTER. When it's a pure silhouette its hard to tell which way she's even facing.通过旋转头部和四肢，并创造一个更紧凑的轮廓，SF4姿势(左)实际上更具立体感。各部分重叠的方式要清晰得多。SFV姿势(右)平坦得多。当它是一个纯粹的剪影时，甚至很难分辨她面对的是哪个方向。
Take a look at the secondary animation of her headband. SF4's has a very nice arc to it. Definitely hand keyed. Really emphasizes the energy of the motion. SFV is dry procedural physics engine stuff.
请看一下她的发带的二级动画。SF4有一个非常漂亮的弧线。绝对是用手调的。真正强调了运动的能量。SFV是物理引擎运算出来的东西。
Some might say that the SFV pose is more similar to a proper Karate punch. I'm not sure if that's even true, but also, the "Shotos" don't practice Karate! They practice the "assassination fist" ie kungfu movie secret arts!Ken, Ryu & Akuma (the "Shotos") actually practice the mythic art of "Ansatsuken" not Shotokan Karate & DEFINITELY NOT "Shotacon Karate"
有些人可能会说，SFV姿势更类似于真正的空手道拳击。我不确定这是不是真的，但是“Shotos”不练习空手道！他们练习“暗杀拳”(功夫电影的秘密技艺)！Ken，Ryu和Akuma（“ Shotos”）实际上练习的是“ 暗杀拳”的神话艺术（之前有一个真人版电影，里面也有说他们学的是暗杀拳，而不只是普通的空手道）
Realism is hardly the most important thing for good animation, but if you wanna talk about realism, let's take a look at Dan Henderson's iconic KO of Michael Bisping. Which fierce punch pose here recalls the "fierceness" of that punch better?
对于好的动画来说，现实主义几乎不是最重要的东西，但如果你想谈论现实主义，让我们来看看丹·亨德森(Dan Henderson)标志性的迈克尔·比斯平(Michael Bisping)的KO。这里的哪个猛拳姿势更能让人回想起那一拳的“猛烈”？
Notice how forcefully he pulls back his non punching arm. As that shoulder goes back the punching shoulder is propelled forward w/more POWER
注意他是多么有力地收回他的非拳击手臂。当肩部向后移动时，出拳的肩部向前推进，力量更大。
Now feel the power of her f+HP (can hit 3 times)! She's putting the weight of her whole LIFE into these punches! Exploding from that step in
现在感受一下她的f+HP的力量(可以击中3次)！她把她全部的重量都放在这些拳头上了！从那一步开始爆发。
The after image blurs are very smartly done. They reinforce the motion and feel supernatural. The way she torques her wrists is GREAT too.
之后的图像模糊处理非常巧妙。它们强化了动作，让人感觉超自然。她扭动手腕的方式也很棒。
（这里答主聊了一些其他的东西）
Street Fighter III was a HUGE leap forward for game animation, and the first place it was most apparent was in the cloth animations!街头霸王3是游戏动画的一次巨大飞跃，最明显的地方是布料动画！Just look at how lush that secondary clothing animation looks compared to what came before!看看这个布料动画与之前相比看起来是多么丰富！
Hadouken means “wave motion fist.” Takashi Nishiyama named the move after the “Hadouho” or “wave motion gun” fromSpaceBattleshipYamato.
Hadouken的意思是“波动拳”。隆以太空战舰大和中的“Hadouho”或“冲击炮”命名了这一举动。
Of course theHadouken must have also been inspired by theKamehameha fromToriyamaAkira'sDragonBall which began publication in 1984
当然，Hadouken的灵感一定也来自于1984年开始出版的鸟山明的“龙珠”中的Kamehameha（龟啵气功）
The way Ryu rolls his hands, cradling an invisible ball of chi as he charges up his Hadouken in SFIII is particularly Taichi (太極 ) like
隆翻手的方式，抱着一个看不见的气球，在SFIII中给他的“哈豆根”充能，特别像太极
Circling back to the Sakura SF4 vs SFV animations ... Also just want to say, please don't blame the artists for the perceived flaws. Who knows what went on behind the scenes!
回到樱花SF4对SFV动画。我也只想说，请不要因为感觉到的缺陷而责怪制作它们的艺术家。谁知道幕后发生了什么！
OK one last word on all this. The Street Fighter 4 poses look good because they closely followed Sakura's 2d sprite. Please check out the 2D Street Fighters. They are some of the most beautiful, skillful, generous games ever made!
好了，关于这一切，我要说最后一句话。街头霸王4的姿势看起来不错，因为它们紧跟樱花的2D动作。请看看2D街头霸王。它们是有史以来制作的最漂亮、最巧妙的游戏之一！
One more one more thing! There seems to be a lot of confusion over the placement of Sakura's legs in her SFV keyframe. It looks like it's her right leg forward (same side as punching hand) but it's actually her LEFT leg that is forward!
还有一件事！樱花的腿在她的SFV关键帧中的位置似乎有很多混乱。看起来像是她的右腿向前(与拳击手同侧)，但实际上是她的左腿向前！
5349
下面是另一个声音，我选一些比较有代表性的言论
支持“街霸5”的观点
首先是一位暴雪大佬的发言：
One of my favorite things about SF5 is the flourishes added to some moves when a character recovers to his/her idle. Not only do they smooth the transition but they vary based on the strength of the attack. (Also, I just noticed the change to her crouching animation)
关于SF5，我最喜欢的一件事是，当角色恢复到空闲状态时，一些动作会增加一些华丽的后摇动画。它们不仅可以平稳过渡，而且还会根据攻击强度的不同而有所不同。(另外，我刚刚注意到她的蹲下的动画发生了变化)
(来自群友拉普提供的截图）
提问：
The transitions look a little slow and awkward compared to how explosive and fluid their movements are in general. Like the leg resets look unnecessaryily big movements, and the crouch reset looks like she off balances herself.
Are these animated or the computer filling blanks?
与它们通常的打击感和流畅性相比，这些过渡看起来有点缓慢和笨拙。就像腿部重置看起来不必要的大动作，而蹲下重置看起来像是她失去了自己的平衡。
这些是动画还是系统直接运算？
解答：
These are animated and only play if you let them play all the way through. Most of the time players move constantly so the “extra motion” is cancelled
这些都是动画，只有在您让它们一直播放的情况下才会播放。大多数情况下，玩家不断移动，因此取消（打断）了“额外动作”。
(来自群友拉普提供的截图）
另一位不知名网友：
Like I said, 4 may have better key poses when you pause it...but 5 looks more realistic/fluid in motion.
SF4 hits those key poses & ends. SF5 takes the entire motion (& follow thru) into account.
Totally different approaches. (BTW I love her SF5 st. mp)
就像我说的，当你暂停的时候，SF4可能会有更好的关键姿势…但是SF5看起来更逼真/运动起来更流畅。
SF4强调了这些打击的关键姿势。SF5考虑了整个动势。 完全不同的方法。
在 SF4 出现的时候 ，同样也被和街霸3系列放在一起吐槽过pose较弱的问题~
不知名网友2：
Her classic poses are more iconic they make good key poses
But her SF5 poses look like they're going for more realism.
Like, her cr mk looks great as an expressive 2D pose,
but if you were actually going to crouch down kick,
you'd do it like SF5. Her SF4 knees are bonkers
她的经典姿势更具标志性，能做出很好的关键姿势。
但是她的SF5姿势看起来更逼真。
就像，她的下蹲踢腿看起来像一个富有表现力的2D姿势，
但如果你真的要蹲下踢腿，你会像SF5那样做。
她的SF4膝盖都疯了
这里要感谢一位 UP主，{:6_205:} 刚好他最近录制了一大堆的 SF4VSSF5 的对比视频。
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av85313756/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av86369971/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av87377453/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av85628293/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av85805742/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av87590085/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av89651165/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av90075427/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av90449148/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av88925349/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av86246676/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av86983520/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av87950373/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av85484099/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av88386226/
嗯·~真是没有对比，就没有伤害~虽然我们都知道要看卡普空的动画，来提升POSE感，提升动画技术但是如果只是看单独的一个，我们觉得，嗯~很屌。
但是有了对比，我们可以更明确的知道，屌在哪里~~更明确的知道自己想学习的“点”哦~~原来还可以这样做，哦~~原来还可以这设计~更有目的去比较，去提高。
也可以加QQ群：74050060里来下载 emmmmm 目前群文件里有不少好东西{:6_220:}
会经常分享一些第一手资源最新的动画相关的信息和视频。纯技术讨论交流。
不管是SF4 还是SF5 都有喜欢它的用户群体，要我说，街霸2它也挺香的，他不经典吗，干脆利落，干倒完事
都是有自己的道理，和喜欢的“点”或许SF6的时候，说不定会是两者的结合。
最后你们是更喜欢 街霸4 还是街霸5呢??
那一个“点”更吸引你呢？为什么？
欢迎发表观点。
4的动作虽然好看真实，但是手感太重了，5应该是为了迎合主流审美和优化手感做出的改进 资源甚好，感谢楼主分享 好 我想玩这个游戏 在哪里可以有结街霸4的下载啊
这才是干货帖子 看的津津有味 前面分析的都对，但是感受起来5代更强啊 街霸5不是有个泳装皮肤系列嘛，去买，好几个妹子 看三围我都知道小樱是多大年纪了 大哥 对比角色背景街霸5小樱是刚学拳的高中生，让她看起来像个学生，不是久经沙场的战士，街霸5里面好多角色性格很明显的